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On this episode of Unlocking Us

OY! It’s our first LIVE Unlocking Us, recorded at ACL Fest in Austin, Texas. I asked Brett Goldstein — writer, comedian, producer, and Emmy Award–winning actor — to join me onstage for a conversation. We talked about the vulnerability and humanity behind comedy, we talked about the band we’d create, we talked about the Muppets — and we talked about why everyone loves his character Roy Kent and all his friends on the beloved comedy series Ted Lasso. This will definitely not be our last live recording.

About the guest

Brett Goldstein

Brett Goldstein is a breakthrough creative force onscreen and off—and has emerged as one of Hollywood’s most sought-after multi-hyphenates: an actor, creator, writer, and producer of incredible range.

He is a series regular, writer and co-producer on Apple TV+’s Emmy- and Peabody Award-winning comedy series Ted Lasso, for which he won the 2021 Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series for his scene-stealing performance as Roy Kent, as well as two Writers Guild of America Awards as part of the show’s writing team. He is currently in the writers’ room on season three.

Brett also most recently co-created, executive produced and wrote the AMC limited series, Soulmates, which debuted in October 2020. A fixture for U.K. audiences onscreen, he starred in and co-wrote the 2015 cult favorite superhero comedy, SuperBob.

Also a gifted stand-up comedian, he began performing in comedy clubs in 2006 and has since toured extensively across the U.K., creating and performing original one-man shows. He remains very connected to his comedy roots and continues to perform in comedy clubs across London, Los Angeles, and more.

Brett also hosts a podcast, Films to Be Buried With, which recently celebrated over 2 million streams.

He received his degree in film studies from Warwick University, and then studied acting at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York City. He currently resides in London.

Show notes

Ted Lasso

Ted Lasso is an Apple TV+ series about a small-time college football coach from Kansas hired to coach a professional soccer team in England, despite having no experience coaching soccer. In addition to starring in the series, Jason Sudeikis serves as executive producer, alongside Bill Lawrence (Scrubs) via his Doozer Productions, in association with Warner Bros. Television and Universal Television, a division of NBCUniversal Content. Doozer’s Jeff Ingold also serves as an executive producer with Liza Katzer as co-executive producer. The series was developed by Sudeikis, Lawrence, Joe Kelly, and Brendan Hunt and is based on the preexisting format and characters from NBC Sports. In 2021, the series set a record for the most Emmy nominations by a new comedy series with twenty nods. It went on the win seven Emmys.

“I cheated on the assignment?”


Barrett Guillen: Hi, everyone. I’m Barrett Guillen and this is Unlocking Us.


BG: Y’all, this is such a special episode. It’s our very first live Unlocking Us. We were a podcast that launched in the pandemic, so we really haven’t been out and about in the world. And it’s a big moment for us, 19 months later, coming to you live from ACL Fest. ACL Fest is a legendary music festival run by Austin City Limits and C3 Presents each fall in Austin, Texas. And we loved being there. They actually asked Brené to headline their new podcast stage called Bonus Tracks. And so she reached out to Brett Goldstein to be her special guest. We totally thought that maybe a few people would show up. But oh my gosh, guys, thousands of you showed up, and you were chanting. Don’t worry, you’re going to hear everybody in a minute.

BG: You should know that this was definitely a live podcast event at a festival. You’ll hear the audience in the background, sometimes in the foreground. And guys, you’ll even hear Doja Cat in the background. It was amazing, and it was so fun. And there was so much energy. Fair warning: It is definitely a festival atmosphere. One more small, maybe big, warning is Brené’s interviewing Brett Goldstein, the beloved Roy Kent on Ted Lasso. Oi. And you should know there’s a good amount of cursing, especially cursing in British. So if you’re offended by British curse words or global curse words or curse words in general, this might not be the podcast for you. But it was so much fun. And such a huge thanks to Brett Goldstein and the entire ACL Fest team. This definitely will not be our last live recording. Let’s move on in to festival mode and get ready for some fun with Brett Goldstein at the ACL Fest in Austin, Texas. We’re so glad you’re here.


BG: Before we jump in, we’re going to learn a little bit more about Brett. But also, you guys know our wonderful intro music was written by Gina Chavez and Carrie Rodriguez. They’ve been on Unlocking Us, and you know them. They were so amazing and they came to the festival and did the Unlocking Us intro song live, on the stage with Brett and Brené. They also even wrote intros for each of them backstage and sang them. You’re going to hear them when the podcast starts, and they’re amazing. We’re so grateful for you, Gina and Carrie. Thank you for coming. It was so fun. A little bit more about Brett. Brett’s a breakthrough creative force on screen and off. He has emerged as one of Hollywood’s most sought after multi-hyphenates. An actor, a creator, a writer, a producer. He is a series regular, writer, and co-producer on Apple TV+’s Emmy and Peabody Award-winning comedy series Ted Lasso, for which Goldstein won the 2021 Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series for his scene-stealing performance as Roy Kent, as well as two Writers Guild of America Awards as part of the show’s writing team. He’s currently in the writers’ room for season three.

BG: Brett also, most recently, co-created, executive produced and wrote the AMC limited series Soulmates, which debuted in October 2020. A fixture for U.K. audiences onscreen, he starred in and co-wrote the 2015 cult favorite superhero comedy, SuperBob. Also a gifted stand-up comedian, he began performing in comedy clubs in 2006. And since then he has toured extensively across the U.K., creating and performing original one-man shows. He remains very connected to his comedy roots and continues to perform in comedy clubs across London, Los Angeles and more. Brett also hosts a podcast called Films to Be Buried With, which he recently celebrated over two million streams. Brené was also a guest on that podcast, guys. It was so hilarious. You guys should listen to it if you get a chance. He received his degree in Film Studies from Warwick University, and then studied acting at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York City. And he currently resides in London. He’s here. He’s there. He’s every you know where. He was at ACL Fest with us. Welcome, Brett Goldstein.


Gina Chavez: All right, so I’m so honored. For those of you who don’t know, Carrie Rodriguez and myself were very graciously invited by Brené Brown to co-write the theme music for her podcast Unlocking Us. Can we get some Unlocking Us love?

[applause] [cheering]

GC: And it was… Well, it truly changed our lives to not only be connected to Brené but to be connected to so many of you. And she actually ended up having us on the podcast. And so Brené is one of those people that practices what she preaches, and she’s a beautiful soul. And that’s why you’re all here, of course.


GC: So they invited us also to introduce Brené and Brett today. And they gave me some bios to read, and I thought maybe we could do something a little different. So we just wrote this backstage. All right, so this is… Brett, this one’s yours. I’m not sure if you’re listening. This one’s for you. Let’s get a little Roy Kent chant going on.


Audience: Roy Kent. He’s here. He’s there. He’s every fucking where. Roy Kent. Roy Kent.

GC: Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay.

Audience: He’s here. He’s there. He’s every fucking where. Roy Kent. Roy Kent.

GC: He’s here. He’s there. He’s every fucking where. [laughter]

Audience: Roy Kent. Roy Kent.

GC: All right. All right. All right. Oi!

Audience: Oi!

[music] [vocalization]

GC: He’s here. He’s there. He’s every fucking where. His name is Brett Goldstein. He’s got an Emmy for supporting our friend Ted.

[applause] [vocalization]

GC: For supporting our friend Ted. He wrote a lot of shit that was said. He’s super sexy that Roy Kent.

[applause] [vocalization]

GC: But his real first name is Brett.


GC: All right, so we just wrote this backstage… Here we go. All right, So Brené, this one’s for you. Wherever you are. Cool. All right here we go.



GC: She puts it all out on the line.


Carrie Rodriguez: She’s not afraid to speak her mind.


GC: Her name is Brene, she’s on our side.

GC and CR: Stay awkward, brave and kind. Stay awkward, brave and kind. Sing it with us now, Awkward, brave and kind.



GC: Brené Brown! Brett Goldstein!

Brené Brown: “He’s here, he’s there, he’s every-fucking-where… ”

Audience: “Roy Kent! Roy Kent!”

Brett Goldstein: Aaaah, Oi.

Audience Member: We love you Brett Goldstein!

BG: Oh hey. Thank you.

BB: What do you think?


BG: This is fucking mental. I mean genuinely fucking mental.


Audience Member: Austin fucking loves you.


BG: Listen, I’ve got to say, I like Austin. I went for a run this morning. It looks like… The vibe here is like, everyone’s cool but they get shit done. It’s like everyone is so cool but also they can build you a tree house like that. They are like ,”I’ve got a digger in the back,” you know what I mean?

BB: Well, welcome to ACL.

BG: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you and thank you for asking me. When Brené Brown slips into your DMs, you have to say yes, it’s a great honor to be here. Thank you.


BB: So, let’s start. I want to remind y’all that we’re recording a podcast. So if you scream something out, make it very clear and audible. Okay.


BG: It’s just a nice chill vibe isn’t it, right?

BB: Yeah, I’ve never done this, this is our first live podcast.


BB: Yeah, and when ACL reached out and said, “Will you do a podcast live at ACL?” And I said, “Yeah, that sounds fun. Can I invite anybody I want to invite?” And that’s when I slid into his DMs.


BG: It’s a pretty great day, it’s a pretty great day.

BB: All right, let’s get started. Y’all ready?

Audience: Yeah!

BB: Okay, I got a lot of questions… Ted Lasso.


BG: I’ve heard of it.

BB: You’ve heard of it? Writer, producer, actor, now Emmy Award winner.


BG: Okay okay, all right, okay

BB: Let me just be really honest. Is this weird for you?

BG: Is this weird?

BB: Yeah.

BG: Of course, it’s fucking weird. Look at this… Look at this madness. I mean, what are we all doing with our lives? Yes, it’s very weird. Is this weird for you? Are you used to this now?

BB: Oh, it’s always weird for me, I always… I got kept calling them, at ACL saying, “What if nobody comes and then it’ll just be the two of us, and then that’s okay we’ll chat.”

BG: Yeah, it’s a podcast. No one needs to be here.

BB: No one needs to be here. So it’s always weird for me… Yeah, and I’m always grateful. So thank y’all.


BG: This is huge, I really appreciate it. Quite a turn out, I feel like we should be playing instruments, do you know what I mean?

BB: Okay, my first question. I just want y’all to know, if you listen to the podcast, you know I asked for five songs for the mini mixtape… We’ll get there at the end. Totally cheated. He cheated. And you don’t even know that I’m aware that you cheated.

BG: I did cheat.

BB: You think you’re going to get away with that bullshit with me? That you’re going to Billy Joel cheat me? We’ll get there, okay. But here’s one of my first question for you, so I’m reading a tweet last week that says, “ACL’s really cool, but the band names are so effing weird, like this is the weirdest of them all, Brené Brown and Brett Goldstein.” I was like, wow. If we were a band, what would we be covering? What would we be playing?

BG: I’d be on bass, silent and moody at the back, you’d be up front, fucking ripping it up, and you’d be doing dancing and people would be going nuts and I would just stay completely still just…


BG: Staring out.

BB: What songs would we be singing? If we were covering people, what bands would we be covering?

BG: Spice Girls. [laughter] Spice Girls, All Saints, you know… What would we be covering, you tell me?

BB: I don’t know…

BG: You’re the front man.


Audience: Elton John, Stevie Nicks, Beatles.

BB: Elton John, Stevie Nicks

BG: Yeah, we do some Stevie Nicks.

BB: We do some Stevie Nicks.

BG: Yeah, we do some Stevie Nicks.

BB: Some Rolling Stones?

BG: Yeah, we do Rolling Stones. Beatles? Could we do?

BB: The Beatles.

BG: The Beatles.

BB: The Beatles. We could do…

BG: What?

Audience: Mumford and Sons.

BG: Mumford and Sons, yes. Yes, they are very good. Yes.

BB: We could do the Beatles. I give you two songs. Which would you pick? I know all the words to “Come Together.”

BG: Okay, we can open with that and we’ll close on “Let it Be,” and just keep it going.

BB: And close on “Let it Be.”

BG: Yeah, we’ll have a nice time.

BB: We’ll have a nice time, but you’re just…


BB: And I’m doing all the work, like the women upfront, that’s right. All right, here’s what I want to know. This is really… These are real questions.

BG: Yeah.

BB: The creative process on Ted Lasso

BG: Yeah.

BB: First of all, let me say on the record, I have nothing to do with the show. So if you don’t like the way shit’s going down, don’t send me any messages. People… People are invested now.

BG: Yeah.

BB: And they have opinions.

BG: You know what makes me slightly… I’ve read a lot of tweets, I don’t know how caught up everyone is, so I don’t want to spoil it…

BB: No, no spoilers.

BG: No spoilers. All right, end of discussion.

BB: Yes. But tell me about the creative process and tell me if you ever think to yourself, “Man, this is going to piss off a lot of people.”

BG: Yeah. I mean, I sort of…he thing I’m proud of in season two is that we had a plan and we’re sticking to it, and when we were writing season two, season one hadn’t come out, so we didn’t think anyone would watch it, and so we were like halfway through writing it, when it came out and people started saying, “I want this, I want that.” And we were like, “You ain’t going to get it.” And so there’s things in it that I think people may not want, but then you have to trust, we did a thing the first time that you liked, so stick with us, and I also think if we did do what everyone wanted, you’d be disappointed. You’d be like, “Yeah, it’s all right.”

BB: I think that’s…

BG: Thank you.

BB: I think that’s true.

BG: Yeah.

BB: Tell me how the creative process works and is it as fun as we all imagine. Don’t you imagine it being like really fun.

BG: It is fun, but what is… The truth is in the writers’ room, there’s a lot of talk. There’s a lot talk about you. We talk about you a lot. For a show that’s fun, there’s a lot of chat about Esther Perel and Brené Brown, and people. It’s the whole thing you talk about being vulnerable. There’s a room of many of us and everyone, at some point, you have to share in the room and you have to be vulnerable and hope everyone’s not going to take the piss out of you, and mostly they do but a lot of the chat is like philosophical and about relationships and about psychology, and then you just add jokes. The jokes bit’s kind of easy. It’s the real stuff…

BB: That’s hard…

BG: Yeah.

BB: So I thought it was like… I didn’t picture it like that. I pictured it being like “Okay, knock knock.” And then “Who’s there?” And then, someone says a funny joke and they’re like, “No, no.” Then here’s…

BG: Eventually I guess… When you’re doing rewrites and people are pitching in on jokes and stuff it gets to that point, but most of it is… I think you’d probably be like, “Wow, these people are fucking serious.” Loads of it, we’re laughing, but there’s also, someone will cry at some point.

BB: Do you talk about a character’s, hero’s journey? Do you talk about those things a lot?

BG: Yes. Yeah, we talk about all that. There is a thing, and it’s always been… Like Jason had a very clear vision of what the show was from the beginning, and we are really sticking to that vision, and then it’s… So it’s sort of… We know where the end is, so it’s like, “How do we get there?” And I think most of what Ted Lasso is, is we take someone you don’t like, and hopefully… Everyone has their reasons for why they are the way they are, and we trying to get into that and try and make them forgivable.

BB: I read that you were brought in as a writer on the show, and you started reading the script and you thought to yourself, “I’d be a damn good Roy Kent.”


BG: I guess so. I mean, I didn’t think of it like… I just was like, “This is in me.” It was like a calling… It was like, “I’ve got to try it.” Because…

BB: And so how did you pitch yourself?

BG: Oh, I didn’t tell anyone because it’s embarrassing, and we were in the writers’ room and I don’t want anyone to… Because imagine we’re all friends and we’re all around a table and someone goes, “I think I could play… ” And you’d be like, “All right, mate.” Yeah, I reckon and it would have just been awkward for everyone, so I waited until the end of season one writing, and I did a self-tape of five scenes and I emailed them and I said, “If this is embarrassing, I will never ask. I will never ask that you saw this email, you can just ignore it, but if you like it, I secretly think I could play Roy,” and then…


BG: Yeah, well thanks. Thanks very much.

BB: Think about what a vulnerable moment that is…


BB: How much courage it took.

BG: Well it was sort of… I think that there’s a thing… When I look back on it, I go, “There’s so many moments of Ted Lasso that are magic.” Truly, where you go, “I don’t really understand how this happened.” But I don’t know if I’d have… I haven’t done that a lot. It’s not like every job I’ve had I’ve sent in secret videos going, “Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m made for this,” It was quite bold, but I truly felt it… This feels like it’s a thing I should be doing, and then every part of making it… I always talk about this, but when Rupert first appeared, when it was Anthony Head, we were filming and Rupert did his first scene and he shouted at the gala, and it was like, “That is the guy we’ve written, and he was magic,” it was exactly as we’d visioned it and Jason and I were like, “This is magic.” And then there were things like going to Wembley Stadium, which may not mean much here, but that’s a fucking…


BG: Yeah. I’ll tell you about all the tough guys…

BB: Brett, it’s not Austin Football Club, but it’s… Yeah.


BG: All of us, all of the footballers when we walked out onto Wembley we all cried. [chuckle] It was real… It was real magic, so much of it and then this shit is magic. You don’t plan it, you just want to make the thing and then hope that someone watches it.

BB: Is there ever a conflict? I know there’s healthy tension, and I think creativity is born of healthy tension, but is there anyone that’s like, “This has to go this way?”

BG: Well, I think we’re all… We’re a team, but it’s Jason’s vision, so at the end of the day, it’s his final… He’s always the final paint brush… We’re chucking stuff in. I don’t think we’ve ever massively disagreed on anything because it’s a thing of trust isn’t it? It’s like, I don’t… He’s very good… He’s really fucking good. And so when he has an idea or he has a thought, it’s like, “That’s probably the best idea.” You know what I mean. We should probably trust this because look how far it’s got us so far.

BB: Tell us about… Without spoilers, right? No spoilers. Tell us about Roy Kent’s journey.

BG: Roy’s like a… He’s a cauldron of emotion, and he doesn’t want anyone to know that, and so he’s… I think the reason his voice is like that is because he’s stuffing it all down…


BG: Because if he let it out, he’d fucking be a mess. So everything is held in.

Audience Member: Grunt

BG: [grunt sound]


BG: What are we doing?

BB: They like the grunt.

BG: What are we doing with our lives?


BB: This is it. One thing I have taken from season one is, if something… It’s really terrible actually of myself, it will just ruin your whole-hearted vision of me, but if something shitty happens to someone that’s pissed me off, the first thing I think is, “Cheers.”

BG: Oh really?

BB: Yeah, cheers.

BG: Cheers.

BB: Yeah. Just do that. Cheers.

BG: Cheers.

BB: Cheers.


BG: Oi!


BB: That’s it. Okay is this true or false?

BG: Go on.

BB: That before Roy Kent you actually played mostly sensitive men?

BG: Nice, sweet boys. I was always playing the nice, sweet boys. Yeah, in England… Yeah, I was basically kind of stereotyped in England, as you bring me in and I’ll be like, “Oh sorry.” And yeah… And “Sorry, you all right?” [chuckle]

Audience Member: I love you!

BG: Thank you. I’m very fond of you.


BB: Do you have fun with Roy?

BG: I fucking love playing Roy, like in a…


BB: You can tell, right?

BG: I am so grateful every day. I love it. I really feel like… It’s a once in a lifetime, to be on a show that I love and to play a part that is that great. I am the luckiest guy in the world. It’s disgusting. It’s disgusting.


BB: I think it’s awesome. I don’t think it’s disgusting. Okay, let me ask you this question. I’ve got mild concern.

BG: Okay.

BB: What is your fixation with the Muppets?


BG: Wait, have you got beef with the Muppets?

BB: Do I have beef with the Muppets? I don’t like the two old grouchity assholes that sit in the balcony.

BG: Yeah, yeah, sure. Statler and Waldorf, yeah.

BB: But you love the Muppets…

BG: I love the Muppets. Yeah.


BB: Tell me.

BG: Well because the Muppets are like us, we’re the Muppets… As in, the beautiful… I think that they’re… I don’t want to… This is going to sound so pretentious like, “Let me explain the Muppets.”

BB: Go ahead.

BG: Well, it’s like… The secret of the Muppets is they’re not very good at what they do. Like Kermit’s not a great host, Fozzie is not a good comedian, Miss Piggy is not a great… None of them are actually good at it, but they fucking love it…


BG: And they’re like a family and they like putting on a show and they have joy and because of the joy, it doesn’t matter that they’re not good at it.


BG: And that’s like what we should all be. Muppets.

BB: That’s aspiration.


BB: Is it true? True or false, that your life will be made if you get to perform with the Muppets?

BG: Yeah, I will happily get hit by a truck afterwards and be done. Like, that’s it.

BB: And what would you like to do with the Muppets?

BG: Anything they ask. I’d do anything they ask.


BB: So I saw… This is on YouTube. I saw you performing a one-man show for a Parkinson’s non-profit in the UK, where you do the entire Muppets Christmas Carol.

BG: Yeah, yeah.


BB: Is there any part of that you’d like to share with us?


BG: Yeah, it was a charity thing. It was a Christmas show, they asked me, would I… It’s a show called A Musical, where they have people who don’t sing come and sing a song for a musical. And I said, I’ll do it if I can do all of Muppet Christmas Carol in six minutes, and I did. And what was great is everyone knew all the words, it was a pretty magical… It was a magical thing, and I’ll never do it again.


BB: How often do you do stand up? Do you still do it?

BG: Yeah, I still do it. I used to do it all the time, and now I do it as much as I can.

BB: Is that terrifying?

BG: Yeah.


BG: It is terrifying, but I’ve got to the point where maybe you’re the same. Where I get nervous every night. I get nervous before everything, but now I realize, “Oh, that’s the thing you need, that’s the adrenaline.” And then you go… Once I’m on stage I’m fine. It’s the build-up you’re always… But I think if you didn’t have that terror you probably wouldn’t be very good, maybe.

BB: And do you know, I just… Do you think that’s the most vulnerable thing you could do is write jokes and then stand in front of a room…

BG: Yeah but can I stop you please Brené, I’m sorry to interrupt.

BB: Go right ahead, Brett.

BG: I’ve seen you’re special and I would describe it as a stand-up special, you’re fucking funny. For an hour, you say stuff, you’re profound, etcetera. But you’re funny, you’ve got, joke joke joke joke joke it’s one of the best stand-up specials I’ve ever seen. So when you say you’re…


BG: It’s a genuinely good stand-up special. When people say like, do you recommend any stand-up? I go “Yeah, Brené Brown.”


BB: Yeah that’s weird, I don’t think of it that way. I think of it just like research with some funny breaks.

BG: But it’s… They’re consistent. Your hit rate is massive.


BB: Well thanks.

BG: It’s true. Banger after banger with you.

BB: We were texting with each other and we were talking about comedy, and you said something that I would love for you to explain, you said, “Drama without humor is not good art.”

BG: Yeah, yeah, I think I saw a film, and I won’t name this film, but it was a very critically acclaimed film, and it was based on a true story, and it was so depressing and there wasn’t a single moment of levity in it. And I was watching it, and I was with my friend James Acaster, if you know him, the comedian. And at one point, I’m sorry, there was an aggressive, horrible sexual assault that happened really slowly, and we were just watching it for like eight minutes. And I turned to my friend and I was like, “That’s entertainment.” And I was like, “What the fuck are we doing here?” Like why… “What’s the point of this film?” And I also thought, you read things, first-person accounts of the Holocaust, you read people who’ve been in war zones, they have jokes like people laugh, that’s what happens in real life in darkness, people make jokes. So if you’re making a drama and it doesn’t have any humor in it, you’ve not been watching properly, you’ve not been watching the world. That’s when people are at their most funny.


BB: I agree. Yeah. I think I shared that quote with you from Carol Burnett that I love, that says, “Comedy is trauma plus time.”

BG: Yeah.

BB: And I think there’s something… And you should… What quote did you share with me?

BG: Oh I think it’s Peter Ustinov, says, “Comedy is being serious in a funny way.”

BB: Yeah.

BG: That’s basically it.

BB: All right I want to read something that Vulture magazine wrote about your podcast. So y’all know Brett has an amazing podcast.


BG: Thank you. Thank you.

BB: Yeah.

BG: That’s where… You were very kind to do it.

BB: It was so fun.

BG: Yeah, I liked it.

BB: It’s called Films to be Buried With.


BG: Yes.

BB: Tell us the premise, and then I’ll read the Vulture review.

BG: The premise is the guests… I tell the guests that they’ve died, and they get to pick how they die, and then we talk about death for as long as their comfortable with…


BG: And then we talk about the films that meant the most to them through their life. So like what’s the film that made you cry the most? What’s the film that scared you the most? What’s the film… The sexiest film? Etcetera.

BB: How did you come up with this idea? That’s really just… I know you’re dark and twisted, but tell me.


BG: I don’t know, I do love talking about death.

BB: Do you?

BG: Yeah because I don’t think we talk about it enough, and it’s like, “Aren’t you worried about it?” One day it’s going to happen. And I think we don’t talk about it. It’s sort of hidden a bit, like everyone’s like, “Yeah yeah yeah death,” but we don’t talk about it. I’m like, “I want to hear all of it.”

BB: It was really weird when I had to think about… I had to tell him I prepped for the podcast like, “How do you die?” So I was very clear that I was like, “I’m in my mid-90s, I just won a two-set tennis match, so I’m healthy.” But then you gave me a lot of shit because I died on the moors.

BG: Yeah, you did die on the moors. And also yeah, I think you wanted to die in your sleep or something?

BB: Yeah.

BG: Which I was like, “Yeah, but something happened in your sleep, it wasn’t just, peaceful.”

BB: No… It was… It was peaceful. Here’s what Vulture magazine, how they described it, “A meditation on death and spirituality, which itself is concealing an exploration of our most naked fears, hopes, and desires.”

BG: That’s really giving it a lot of credit.

BB: I felt like we talked about Grease 2 a lot.


BG: Yeah, which is a meditation on life and…

BB: And you liked Grease 2?

BG: I fuckin’ love Grease 2. It’s the best Grease.


BG: Woah, woah, oh, what? Oh, oh. Now you’re angry. What? Grease is a film about a woman who has to change herself for a man. Oh, you’re all fans aren’t you? You sexist pigs.


BB: All right. We’ve got to do a little British, you’ve got to help me with some words…

BG: Okay.

BB: Okay. Wanker.

BG: Wanker is a jerk off.

BB: Okay. First time on the podcast, we’re discussing this. Okay, bollocks.

BG: Bollocks are your testicles but it also means like, “That’s bollocks, that’s bullshit.”

BB: Oh, bullshit?

BG: Yeah.

BB: So like…

BG: But also…

BB: I got it.

BG: The dogs bollocks is a good thing. There’s a lot of uses out of bollocks. Like, “That’s fucking bollocks,” then you go, “Have you seen my bollocks?” And then the other version is, “That was amazing, that was the dog’s bollocks.”

BB: Is that different than the dog’s dinner?

BG: Dogs dinner is shit, yeah that’s bad.

BB: Oh. So bollocks is synonymous with bullshit?

BG: Yeah, bullshit. Bollocks.

BB: Okay.

BG: That’s bollocks. Bollocks. You have got to give it some intonation.

BB: Bollocks… Bollocks. Here we would say like fifteen syllable horseshit.

BG: Yeah, that’s great.

BB: Yeah, but y’all don’t say horseshit.

BG: I love that I have come on the classiest podcast in the whole world and now people are going to be listening to this, just you and me go, “Bollocks, bollocks.”


BB: I’m just so curious because there’s so many different words. Are you actually a tea drinker?

BG: No, no.

Audience: Boo!

BG: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa the crowds turning. I drink coffee. I drink coffee.

:48.0 Audience: Whoo!

BG: They are back. They are back. They are back.

BB: Wow, okay.

Audience member: Pigeon sweat.

BB: Pigeon sweat.

BG: It is Pigeon sweat.

BB: It is Pigeon sweat.

BG: It is. I don’t get it. I don’t get it.

BB: Okay, what do we have to look forward to? What are you doing besides Ted Lasso, what else… Where can we find you? Where can we…

BG: Ted Lasso is a full-time job. We basically write half the year and then we make it half the year.

BB: Are you writing now?

BG: We’re writing now, we’re writing season three now.


BB: London?


BG: Yeah, yeah.

BB: Can you tell us anything?

Audience: No, no!

BG: That’s insane.

BB: Not a spoiler but like a…

BG: No spoilers but four of the main characters die, no spoilers. No spoilers.

Audience: You and Keeley!

BG: Yeah, Keeley yeah. Are you all shouting out who you think is going to die?

BB: Raise your hand if you like Roy and Keeley together.


BG: I do too.

BB: Tell us about your relationship with Phoebe.

BG: I love Phoebe. So Phoebe is an actor called Elodie and when we first met… You know the moment at the end of episode three when we’re at the school and I go, “Phoebe” and she runs after me?

BB: Yeah.

BG: That was like in my mind… Roy Kent is like Bill Sikes from Oliver and Phoebe’s Bullseye, his dog. So he’s like, “Bullseye!” But it’s like, “Phoebe!” And she runs along. She was so good that we were like, “Oh, we’re going to have to use her more.” And I spent a lot of time… It’s probably the youngest person I’ve spent the most time with. And she’s sort of annoying because she’s so much better than everyone else in the cast, and she always comes, she knows all her lines… It’s embarrassing. It was like, “Oh, you’ve done your homework, have you? Okay, oh great.” And then you give her a note… She’s proper… She’s proper. And she does also want to be a vet in the wild.

BB: That’s amazing.

BG: Yeah, she’s really something.

BB: Do you have… Are there a lot of bloopers? Do y’all crack each other up a lot?

BG: Yeah, I can’t do scenes… Actually… I can’t do scenes with Phil Dunster who plays Roy Kent… Who plays Jamie Tartt. I play Roy Kent, I’m sticking with that. I can’t get through a scene with him. We laugh a lot. That is a genuine problem. And then this year, I had more scenes with Nick Mohammed, I can’t get through scenes with him. There’s a scene in season two, that I asked to be removed from because I was laughing so much, it was like, we’re never going to get this. I was like, “Do I need to be in this?” Just please, cut me out. And I think if you watch closely, it’s mostly the back of my head and me just shaking. But it’s very difficult because Roy Kent doesn’t really smile, so if I smile, take is ruined.

BB: Is that hard?

BG: It’s hard, it’s hard. It’s really hard, actually. It is hard. It is hard because everyone’s fucking funny in that show.

BB: So the actor who plays Jamie Tartt.

BG: Funny.

BB: Funny, right?

BG: Funny boy.

BB: And a Shakespearian actor, right?

BG: He’s a proper actor. Yeah, he’s a proper, proper actor and he’s so funny. And there’s a lot of people in this cast that I don’t think knew they were funny, and you’re like, “Oh yeah, yeah, you’re all comedians,” and they’re all like, “I’m Shakespeare,” I’m like, “No, you’re a comedian.” They’re all…

BB: Who came to the show? You, Jason, Brendan, who came to the show from comedy, and who came to the show from serious drama?

BG: Hannah who plays Rebecca…

BB: Oh my God, she’s so fierce.

BG: She’s incredible. She’s incredible and she’s a stand-up in her heart. I think that… Juno has never done comedy. She was terrified, funny. Phil, funny.

1 BB: Oh, he’s funny.

BG: Nick, Brendan, me and Jason had done… We’re from comedy. Who else have I missed? Toheeb? He’s not done comedy, funny. Funny cast.

BB: That’s surprising to me because the comedic timing of Ted Lasso is impeccable.

BG: Yeah. Jason’s got a really good instincts in that casting, like… There is a lot of discoveries, you know what I mean? I remember when he told me he was going to cast Juno Temple, I shit myself because she’s like a proper… If you’ve seen her other stuff before Ted Lasso, it’s dark and like amazing and…

BB: Moody.

BG: She’s like a real, real, real proper actor. And I was like, “Oh man, am I going to be able to keep up with her?” And then I met her, and she’s so wonderful, and you just have to look in her eyes and then you’re all right, you know what I mean? She’s just pure light. Like, real thing… Yeah.

BB: Beautiful. All right, one last question about the show. Who actually plays football or soccer on the show?

BG: Most of the… Half the team that don’t have the most lines, they’re all kind of semi-pro, and all the other… I’ll tell you… Sam’s really good. They’re all really good, they’re all really good.

BB: Dani Rojas.

BG: Dani Rojas was a Pro.

BB: Football is life.

BG: Dani Rojas, the pro… Phil Dunster, that big, big, big free-kick he does in episode six, he did that in one. I mean that was the greatest day of his life.

BB: And you, are you a football…

BG: Absolutely shit at it. I have a good go, I can run. I can chase a ball.

BB: Got it. Okay, you’re ready for some rapid fire questions? Y’all ready for rapid fire?

BG: Let’s go.

BB: Don’t pull those eyebrows on me. All right, you ready?

BG: Yeah, I’m ready.

BB: Vulnerability is?

BG: Hard, man. [laughter] It’s hard. It’s hard, I know… It’s a struggle, isn’t it? Oh, this is rapid fire. That was the answer.

BB: No, go ahead.

BG: Well, it’s like I get that it’s important, but I still find it hard. I still find it a thing you have to… I think it’s how you’re raised. And weirdly, I was thinking about this, my dad is a very open, loving man, but I, whether it was culturally or whatever, I grew up sort of like, you don’t… I always felt like you don’t show emotion, you don’t show vulnerability. So it’s still hard, but I appreciate that it’s important, but that is why I go to the cinema on my own to cry, because I don’t want anyone fucking seeing, you know what I mean?

BB: I’ll go with you to the movies.

BG: I don’t want you seeing, Brené.

Audience: I’ll go too.

BG: All right, we’ll all go to the movies and I’ll cry and you can cry stuff.

BB: Perfect. Okay, this is… I’m so interested in the answer to this question. You’re called to be really, really brave, but you are really afraid, you can feel the fear in the back of your throat. What’s the very first thing you do?

BG: Look up, connect to the sky and then just fucking go for it and trust that it’ll be all right.

BB: Look up, connect with the sky?

BG: Look up and fucking go, “You’ll probably be fine.” And if not, tell yourself, “Well, it’ll be a good story.” If it’s a disaster, it’s going to be a great story.

BB: That’s right.

BG: So either way, you win or you have a great story.

BB: Okay, I love it. What is something that people often get wrong about you?

BG: What people… The vulnerability thing. I’m quite shy, is the truth. So I think people don’t expect that, and I think they’re like, “Bollocks,” and like… But this is a controlled environment, and I say controlled as in because there’s barriers.


BB: I can see you’re shy.

BG: Yeah.

BB: Yeah.

BG: It’s partly being British as well. I think we’re born shy. Like, it’s very interesting, in America, everyone’s like, “I’m here!” And British people are like, “Excuse me, sorry.”

BB: All right. Last television show that you binged and loved?

BG: It’s a Sin. You see that?

BB: No.

BG: Russell T. Davies’ show about AIDS. It’s fantastic.

BB: It’s a Sin.

BG: And a really good example of it’s a drama about the AIDS crisis, and it’s got so much funny in it. So funny you will cry, funny.

BB: I’ll check it out. All time favorite movie?

BG: Singin’ in the Rain.

BB: We see you, Brett. Yeah. A concert you’ll never forget?

BG: Billy Joel, Earl’s Court. When I was like six and he was on… And we had seats really far back, and he had a stage that spun, and you couldn’t really see him. And I was like, “Oh, he’s funny.” And he said something like, “Whoop-de-do, I’m spinning round.” And I was like, “I like this guy.”

BB: Okay, oh, I’m so curious about this. Favorite meal?

BG: Chinese.

BB: What will you order?

BG: All the starters.

BB: Oh, just… You’re heavy appetizers?

BG: I’ll have all the appetizers, and then I’ll buy their product. I’ll have all the starters, the appetizers, yes.

BB: Yeah. What’s your favorite starter?

BG: Spare ribs.

BB: Oh, got it. You haven’t had chips and queso ever before, right?

BG: Yes.

BB: Oh, you have?

BG: Yeah. Brené was really adamant I have tacos before this gig, and I did and I believe the hype.

BB: All right. What’s on your night stand at home? Just let us have it.

BG: Books, and one of them, sun alarms.

BB: I don’t know.

BG: It’s like the sun comes up, in your room.

BB: Oh, yeah. Okay, does that work for you?

BG: I still haven’t quite worked out how to work it.

BB: Okay, give us a snapshot of an ordinary moment in your life that brings you real joy.

BG: Ordinary…

BB: Just an ordinary moment in your life.

BG: This isn’t that ordinary, but my favorite thing is getting in the sea, in the ocean. So if I’m ever in the ocean, I’m a very happy man.

BB: You’re a very happy man.

BG: And I would just swim out and look up and be like, “Oh yeah, we’re all specks of dust and nothing matters,” and that will make me happy.

BB: So that kind of sense of wonder and awe that right-sizes us?

BG: Yeah, yeah, exactly. When everything’s a bit too much, just get in the sea.

BB: I love that.

BG: And then you’ll like, reset.

BB: Okay, tell me one thing that you’re deeply grateful for in your life right now.

BG: I don’t want to… Genuinely, Ted Lasso, I love every part of it. And the fact that I get to go to work… At the moment we’re writing, I get to go to work with these people that I genuinely love, that are really fucking great people, that are really smart and funny and interesting, and we can be vulnerable with each other and we can laugh with each other, and I think I truly have one of the best jobs in the world. Probably, a surgeon is better, but it’s still something.

BB: Yeah, we can tell that y’all love it.

BG: Yeah.

BB: Can’t you tell? All right, this is where he cheated on the five songs for the mixtape. So number one is actually… What do we think, Laura? Three songs? First of all, he texts me and he says, “Can I send you five Billy Joel songs, and then five other songs.” And I’m like, “No, dude, that’s not the jam, it’s not our jam.” So number one, “Scenes from an Italian Restaurant” by Billy Joel, that’s three songs.

BG: Correct. It’s three songs, but technically, it’s one song.

BB: Number two, “Heaven Help Us All” by Stevie Wonder.

BG: That’s one song.

BB: “Let Me Clear My Throat ‘Live'” by DJ Kool.

BG: Yep.

BB: “The Magic Store” from The Muppet Movie.

BG: That’s four songs, that is four songs.

BB: And “Summertime” by Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald.

BG: Yeah.

BB: In one sentence, what does this mini mixtape say about you, Brett Goldstein?

BG: That I cheated on the assignment?


BB: That you cheated on the assignment.

BG: Yeah.

BB: All right y’all, he’s here, he’s there, he’s fucking everywhere.

BG: Thank you very much, this has truly been insane. Thank you so much for having me, Brené, it means a lot.

BB: Yeah, thank y’all for coming, tonight! Y’all have fun and be safe. Brett Goldstein.

BG: Brené Brown.


Barrett Guillen: How much fun was that, you guys? A huge thank you for Brett Goldstein and the entire ACL Fest and C3 team. This will definitely not be our last live recording. You can find Brett and Ted Lasso on Apple+ and you can find his podcast, Films to Be Buried With, wherever you listen to podcasts. We’ll also link to it in the episode page. He is @mrbrettgoldstein on Instagram and @brettgoldstein on Twitter. We’ll also put all these links in the episode page. A couple of reminders, every episode of Unlocking Us podcast has an episode page on where we have resources, downloads and transcripts, and you can sign up for our newsletter there too. We’re so happy to be here on Spotify. The Dare to Lead podcast is also available on Spotify every Monday and it’s free for everyone. We’re all grateful that we get to be together here each week to unlock the deeply human part of where we are together. Thanks, friends. Stay awkward, brave and kind. See you next week right here on Spotify.


BB: Unlocking Us is a Spotify original from Parcast. It’s hosted by me, Brené Brown. It’s produced by Max Cutler, Kristen Acevedo, Carleigh Madden, and Tristan McNeil, and by Weird Lucy Productions. Sound design by Tristan McNeil and music is by the amazing Carrie Rodriguez and the amazing Gina Chavez.

© 2021 Brené Brown Education and Research Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Brown, B. (Host). (2021, October 20). Brené with Brett Goldstein Live at ACL Fest on Comedy, Creativity, and Roy Kent. [Audio podcast episode]. In Unlocking Us with Brené Brown. Parcast Network.

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